Ortho says he can't fix black triangles

[Twangsnap]

Hi all, I've had a few black triangles appear in my front teeth as they've aligned. The ones on the bottom are very large (large enough to get a small cleaning brush through) but I could probably live with them as they aren't very visible. However, there is also a fairly large black space appearing between my two top front teeth. I've raised this with my ortho who said it was due to my teeth being triangular in shape and that I probably had them prior to braces. I definitely didn't and he proved himself wrong by showing my before photos and then dropped the subject. In fact the spaces only appeared when I started on elastics for an overjet in October. Before that they simply weren't there and my teeth were already perfectly aligned. So my uneducated guess is that they've been caused by the pull of the elastics, and not by the shape of my teeth. I want to broach this subject again with my ortho but in a way that will allow us to find a solution. Have any of you faced similar issues? Is there anything I could suggest or propose to him which might change his mind about this - I'm really not happy about the space because I do feel that it could be fixed, not to mention that food gets stuck in there which is really unsightly and just not good for hygiene reasons. I'd be upset if this is still there when my braces come off in 3 months so the clock is ticking....

[SinkFullOfDinner]

Has your ortho talked about a bit of IPR to close up the triangles? I don't know how big they are, or if your front teeth have a little extra width to play around with, but when a couple dreaded triangles started showing up for me, that's when the IPR started to include the front teeth. They're mostly gone, but I'm not sure I want to lose any more enamel off the front to eliminate the last one completely. I think the size of your front teeth will have something to say about how far you can take IPR as a solution. Good luck with that, for sure!

[T1braces]

Same dilemma for me. 9 weeks with braces. I have triangle teeth, 2 front teeth especially and quite large. We have touched in composite bonding or maybe veneersto cover the black triangles after the brace has straightened everything. I have IPR too where they shave the teeth slightly which helps. There are options but sadly more cost on top of the cost of braces

[Twangsnap]

So I actually had to google IPR. I am clueless

To those of you who've had it done, is there a downside to IPR? Does it weaken the teeth? My orthodontist is really old school (but actually also quite young and super sexy...off topic I know), and in a very rural area in France - cutting edge (now THAT is a pun) technology is not really a thing here. OK, I will need to find out what this is called in French first and then see what he says.

[carzfrm60s]

This was something my ortho brought up on the front end. I had those gaps on top and bottom. He used IPR and was
able to get all of my bottom gaps closed alot, teeth are pretty well side by side all the way to my gums now.The top
ones are much better but still have a little bit of a gap due to receeded gum tissue. Overall I never thought they would
look as good as they do now. Had power chains and elastics, to pull midline, for a few months and braces are scheduled
to come off in 2 weeks.

[Twangsnap]

carzfrm60s, I don't know if my ortho just doesn't offer IPR or if he doesn't see the gaps as a problem. I will definitely pin him down about it at my next appointment. I just feel that if my teeth stayed like this, I would be a bit disappointed ... mostly delighted to be fair, but after all we have to go through, the least we can ask is 100% satisfaction

Was it something you had to pay extra for if you don't mind me asking? I'd very much like to avoid any extras but if I have to fork out more, I will do it for this.

[carzfrm60s]

No I did not pay any extra. Good lord, for the price we pay, there should be no extras!
My ortho has actually done mine a couple of times during treatment as the teeth have
moved. I think our expectations should be high unless we've been told otherwise.

[T1braces]

Hi. No extra cost for IPR. My ortho used a very thin file and filed the sides of quite a few teeth. No pain at all, just sometimes a little pressure felt. I've had 2 appointments and he has used this technique each time. Going on to my second wire mid March and I'm sure he'll do it again. No issues afterwards as it's only a slight filing of enamel each tooth. Good luck. Keep us updated what happens

[Twangsnap]

Good lord, for the price we pay, there should be no extras!

Lol, yes you are so right - Thank you everyone, that gives me hope. I have an appointment on 17th February, I will keep you posted, feeling so much better about it though, especially when it seems like such a simple solution.

[Twangsnap]

I had an emergency appointment with my ortho today because a ligature elastic popped off my front tooth so I raised the issue with him again about the spaces between my front teeth (there are now two more on either side appearing also). He did mention that shaving the teeth was the way to fix it but he clearly really really doesn't want to do it, and doesn't seem to think changing the shape of the teeth is a good idea. He first told me to wait until the braces are off and see how things settle, that sometimes gums will grow to fill the gaps. He then said if I wanted to do the IPR I should speak to my dentist!! I just don't get it.

Anyway, he could see I was getting annoyed and to be fair it was only a five minute appointment to put on a new elastic, so he said we would discuss it again at the next appointment.
What's annoying me is that I keep telling him I didn't have the top teeth gaps until I started wearing the elastics in October. Before that there was no gap, even when the overcrowding had been fixed, so I don't believe it's a problem with the shape of my teeth as he keeps say (definitely that's the issue on the bottom but not the top). I'm also not happy with him just avoiding the subject - if he has a reason why he doesn't want to do IPR, fine, but he needs to explain that to me so I can make an informed choice but I really feel like I'm being brushed off.

[T1braces]

Hi have you been given a rough idea as to how long you will need braces on for? I ask as mine is approx 10 months as turning a few teeth top and straightening couple st bottom. Maybe if your treatment will be say 24 months, the IPR may start later? I'm no expert mind. I know the teeth do tend to look worse before better and trusting "the process" is important. The end result is what matters; but you do have rights to ask or raise concerns you have. Keep us updated and good luck

[Twangsnap]

HI T1braces, I already have my debonding date, in 3 months time so I'm at the end of the treatment. My orthodontist has said several times that he's just waiting for the elastics to fix the overbite, everything else is done. So as far as he's concerned, the spaces between my teeth are part of the final result.
I don't want to sound unreasonable mind you, my teeth look stunning compared to a year ago, even with the spaces, but I am spending as much time poking food out of those holes as I am cleaning my braces. On a hygiene level alone it just seems wrong to have such large gaps. Not to mention that my whole family suffers from receding gums, including me, so I doubt very much that the gum will grow back after the treatment, but who knows.

[LisainTX]

I just wanted to say that I don't think you are sounding unreasonable at all. It sounds like you have been very nice about it.
I think that for what we all pay for braces that we deserve to have time for consultation so I'd ask for that. After all, if you are like me they took about an hour or more of my time to "consult" about my payment plan.
I would be very nice (as you are) and be very up front with my concerns. Don't be afraid to ask any questions at all.
Perhaps the ortho can explain better what he is hoping to happen. I'd also make sure he understands that it is quite clear that the spaces weren't there prior to braces and ask for a full explanation about what they are.
If you are given the run around or he seems to get angry with you asking, then I'd take it a little further but hopefully you'll get a better answer soon. Good Luck!

[Twangsnap]

Thanks LisainTX for the support. I am really surprised by his approach but I also really want answers and some clear options, not a dismissive "let's wait and see". I went back over my monthly photos again and confirmed that yes this top space appeared right after I started on elastics. It's not there in previous photos and in fact I remember very well the morning I woke up and found it there, it literally appeared overnight. I am gearing up for a frank discussion on the 17th. Thanks again!

[T1braces]

Hi twangsnap. Before my treatment I was told due to quite large bell shaped teeth and my age I would end up with a black triangle (particularly one side)... he said he would use IPR to reduce this but there would still be limitations. I'm 11 weeks in and already love the alignment line yourself but one black triangle does bother me. There is an option of composite bonding to fill the gaps (in some cases and if your dentist is good in this field. I was aware of the black triangles that would appear due to my teeth shape before my treatment started. I think it's unfair if you have not been advised this possibility. I'll try put a photo on here - if I can figure how on my phone lol