Anterior open bite, retreating 20 yrs later, intro and ?

[jfriend33]

Happy Holidays everyone!

Well it has been a LONG long time since my last update! I can't believe I went TWO months without yapping on here!

So, things are still moving along. My last visit was a few weeks ago. Basically if I am not satisfied with how things are at my next visit in 2 weeks, then things are going to change. They are going to take pano's, do impressions, etc, just to record how everything is. I was told that my teeth are great and its time for them to come off. But if I want to be a little more particular with my finishing it is ok, and up to me. Trust me, I would love to be done with the monthly visits that take up an entire day (2 hrs of driving each way in addition to being there for 90 minutes, its a long day).

I am a little irritated, or I guess, disappointed. I had kept telling them over and over, that my upper k9s are out of whack. You can even tell that they are angled the wrong way. And sure enough they had been looking at the wrong pano and my roots are angled. Its like, ok, if you would have listed to me back in september, in stead of complaining that each bracket being re-positioned adds a month of treatment time, and that panos are never accurate for k9s because of some issue that is similar to mapping of the earth, then I would probably have a head start, ya know? And they seem to fail to realize that I have only been in full braces since July 2015 (back braces on since dec 2014).

I just think its unfortunate that with orthodontics there are a million different ways to do something and there is so much inconsistency. I appreciate that they are not 100% rushing me out of their practice. I just made my final payment so that is awesome too.

I am currently having issues where my upper teeth are biting in to my lower brackets, which believe me, is an excellent thing! But They could have either just repo'd the lower brackets or did some buildups but no. That is happening in about 2 weeks. Getting all my front teeth brackets repositioned and starting with a different wire, one without so many steps and beds, where each one has a consequence and ends up messing up another tooth.

You see, they started to step down my teeth ever so slightly to create this smile arc that wasn't even my idea and as a consequence it is messing up the adjacent teeth behind it.

So here are a few pics, will probably have to make 2 posts since you can only do 3 photos per post. One pic is from early december with my ligatures off. I am still doing my own powerchain, except now they send me home with my own rolls.

I was also told they wished I'd agree to a tooth positioner but I just can't commit to that kind of wear. They are refusing to install any vloop bonded retainers just yet and are doing vivera/essex upper and lower when the time comes. Extended a bit to the roof of my mouth with a hole drilled through as a "right spot" reinforcement reminder for the tongue. I also asked for an order for a videofluoroscopic swallow study so hopefully that happens before debonding. Followup consult with myologist went well and all that is still doing fine.

Am I crazy for wanting these spaces closed by my k9's? I mean there is literally enough room on my left side between my upper and lower first premolar for my tongue to stick in there. Shouldnt most of the teeth have contact? Except for the molars in the way back, those do not have to touch is what I have always been told.

Still wearing triangle elastics, but doubled, on both sides, 24/7. 2nd post is coming next.

[jfriend33]

In this post, you can see how many bends my archwire has! I thought it was crazy having all those steps in the back at first, zbends, etc. Its time to either stop now, or realign all the brackets properly so I am not biting into them. My upper left k9 also bites into the lower k9 bracket and is quite painful.

Changing my powerchain every week at home.

[FlowerPower]

Hey jfriend33! I have a question. I haven't read through the whole thread yet but did your orthodontist suggest surgery? Your teeth look great! I had a thumb sucking habit (no longer however) and while I don't believe my open bite to be too severe (I have crowing which makes it look a little worse) I have already had one orthodontist suggest surgery. However, it seems as if that is almost the default treatment for open bites. I am trying to keep my head and up look at different options and it seems that non-surgical options are out there but I wonder if they were all suggested surgery as a fix. Thank you!!!

[lmk]

Hi there! Your teeth are looking amazing! For the spaces on the sides by the canines, how is that treated? I'm curious because my daughters has the same thing and it is something she wants fixed. (She has braces now)

[jfriend33]

Hey jfriend33! I have a question. I haven't read through the whole thread yet but did your orthodontist suggest surgery? Your teeth look great! I had a thumb sucking habit (no longer however) and while I don't believe my open bite to be too severe (I have crowing which makes it look a little worse) I have already had one orthodontist suggest surgery. However, it seems as if that is almost the default treatment for open bites. I am trying to keep my head and up look at different options and it seems that non-surgical options are out there but I wonder if they were all suggested surgery as a fix. Thank you!!!

Yes I was supposed to have surgery and braces roughly 30-40k. Instead using TADs miniscrew implants in combination with treating the cause (poor tongue posture) with myofunctional therapy. My result would be no different than with surgery. I am just in finishing mode and trying to figure out ways to wrap up without extending too much longer. Read most of my thread for proof that open bites can be corrected without surgery. Also the user Ajs604.

I have some Bolton discrepancies in regards to the sizes of my teeth, some are slightly larger or smaller. I think that is part of the cause. My teeth on my left are slightly larger than on my right.

We definitely do not want to do too much more IPR as it will just make my palate even smaller and cramp my tongue. I am sure with bracket repositioning, a little shaping, new archwires, and some elastics things will turn out nearly perfect.

I just don't know if the risk is worth it. I think my bite should be over corrected just bit more. If anything positioning all the front brackets more gingivally would achieve this just fine.

I've only been in braces on the front for 17 months.

I don't need my top teeth to come down any more except for the left k9. I need the lower teeth on my right side to come up just a hair to level out.

[jfriend33]

Well, what a pickle of a situation this has been. My usual head dr, not the treating student, was out of the country doing philanthropy work. And literally, on my chart notes on the screen, it said "repo upper and lower front six or debond".

It started out several months ago when my 2nd student basically said to me, ok, you need to think about this. Visualize your current imperfections 1 year from now. Would they bother you? I seriously pondered this for weeks. I was ready to have my braces off and be done. My bite has improved so much. No more tmj pain. Bite looks great. Great smile arc. However, what she said really resonated with me. After being in braces the first time and being so disappointed with the results, I wanted it done right this time. The head dr even said, if you were my brother or my son, I would say you are good to go! Most patients are begging to get out of braces, but instead you are the opposite, are extremely compliant, have excellent hygeine, etc. You have ran the marathon, and want your tshirt and trophy! So because of this, I will allow you to decide. We can do extra finishing work, but know that there are some risks involved. There is a potential that a space may crack open, etc. Or we can debond. Take some time and think about it.

So I arrive for my appointment to have my front six upper and lower brackets debonded and repositioned with new archwires.....(this has been going on now SINCE SEPTEMBER ya know because allegedly each bracket that is removed adds ONE MONTH to treatment time..hmm ok..) and of course my head DR is gone, so the head of the ortho dept comes out and says, nope you are done. Im like, excuse me? Do you not see the chart here? He goes, no no, there is something else going on here. Like, ok are you insinuating I have some type of dysmorphia problem or something? I did not say that but I wanted to! He was so rude to me. I said how eternally grateful I was for all the progress we had made here. And honestly that if I was forced to have them taken off, I would be so thankful. But that this was not what we had planned to do! And I had spent weeks on the decision, and we came to an agreement. And I basically get told that I could leave and go get treated elsewhere. Hmm what a coincidence that I had just made my last payment???? The student was also so upset and confused she couldn't even attach powerchain to me without it breaking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So then, I specifically told the dr in training to email me to let me know that my regular supervising dr would be back from his emergency out of the country trip so I know to go to the apt or not. No email, nothing. And I get a freaking phone call from some receptionist saying gee wow where are you, you missed your big day to get your braces off!!! Umm......Ok!!!! NO THANKS!

So attached are some photos, you can see that things are pretty awesome compared to where we started. But is it that big of a freaking deal to level out my bottom row of teeth, and close these gaps by my k9s? There's some bolton discrepancies from one side to the other, and I definitely do not want to do any more IPR to reduce the size of my arch anymore than they already have. But the fact is, I know I may sound like I know everything, but I don't. I feel short changed. I feel confused. Upset. And let down. I was ready to get my braces off months ago. But the STUDENT was the one that pointed out the finishing and said think about it, and if it would bother me, they would deal with it, or at least attempt to, risks involved or not.

I know that ortho can be treated many ways. But there are so many dang bends in this archwire, it is impossible to properly maneuver this k9 without it jacking the adjacent teeth. They have repo'd that bracket only. NO help. Would someone either with experience, or a professional, please tell me that I am not crazy, and tell me what to do? I am honestly considering just going to a pvt orthodontist to get this finishing work done. I also have debated contacting the first student that did the majority of the work, as he has his own private practice about 8 hrs away and see if he would give me a decent deal and be able to take the credit for most of the work and maybe use my photos for his new practice or something?

I am at the point where I really do not care if I have to pay a little extra to get this done right. But I can tell you one thing, yes, I have saved tens of thousands of dollars by going this route. I have avoided jaw surgery. But never in my life have I seen such a profession that has a million different ways to do things, where heads bump, and people cannot come to an agreement on things.

Heck the guy that told me I could go elsewhere was the one that did my entrance exam, and basically said, wow, you went and did myofunctional therapy on your OWN, and are this dedicated to get this fixed, normally we dont do this, but you are a guaranteed accepted patient to the program, Welcome! I just want a healthy smile that will last a lifetime. I have only been in braces on my back teeth since december 2014. And only been in braces on my front teeth since July 2015. I am ready to get them off. I just don't feel like I am being treated properly and to be publicly humiliated like that has been pretty hard to deal with. I don't EVER expect my teeth to look perfect. But get real.

[Rebeccasmells]

Wow your teeth are so clean and straight. Just get the darn things of!

[jfriend33]

Wow your teeth are so clean and straight. Just get the darn things of!

thank you, I am ready to get them off....but I don't see why it is so difficult to address this minor issue as promised. and if it doesnt work, as in, starts to make things worse, then we just stop, and thats it. I had a terrible experience my first time in braces, and I think after 12 weeks of therapy and countless 2 hr drives, that I deserve to have proper finishing work.....

[Rebeccasmells]

Wow your teeth are so clean and straight. Just get the darn things of!

thank you, I am ready to get them off....but I don't see why it is so difficult to address this minor issue as promised. and if it doesnt work, as in, starts to make things worse, then we just stop, and thats it. I had a terrible experience my first time in braces, and I think after 12 weeks of therapy and countless 2 hr drives, that I deserve to have proper finishing work.....

I don't see an issue, and as someone who's has treatment for 2 years, surgey, monthly visits, spent $15k AUD and doesn't have a masters in dentistry degree, I really don't have an answer to you, other than do what they say.

You still have the retainer to wear and that could move things around a bit?

My teeth aren't perfect but my ortho, hygientst, dentist and surgeon say they are fine, so I think their professional opinion (I didn't express concerns) means I shouldn't worry and just get on with life.

[jfriend33]

Wow your teeth are so clean and straight. Just get the darn things of!

thank you, I am ready to get them off....but I don't see why it is so difficult to address this minor issue as promised. and if it doesnt work, as in, starts to make things worse, then we just stop, and thats it. I had a terrible experience my first time in braces, and I think after 12 weeks of therapy and countless 2 hr drives, that I deserve to have proper finishing work.....

I don't see an issue, and as someone who's has treatment for 2 years, surgey, monthly visits, spent $15k AUD and doesn't have a masters in dentistry degree, I really don't have an answer to you, other than do what they say.

You still have the retainer to wear and that could move things around a bit?

My teeth aren't perfect but my ortho, hygientst, dentist and surgeon say they are fine, so I think their professional opinion (I didn't express concerns) means I shouldn't worry and just get on with life.

I am still in braces.

[Rebeccasmells]

thank you, I am ready to get them off....but I don't see why it is so difficult to address this minor issue as promised. and if it doesnt work, as in, starts to make things worse, then we just stop, and thats it. I had a terrible experience my first time in braces, and I think after 12 weeks of therapy and countless 2 hr drives, that I deserve to have proper finishing work.....

I don't see an issue, and as someone who's has treatment for 2 years, surgey, monthly visits, spent $15k AUD and doesn't have a masters in dentistry degree, I really don't have an answer to you, other than do what they say.

You still have the retainer to wear and that could move things around a bit?

My teeth aren't perfect but my ortho, hygientst, dentist and surgeon say they are fine, so I think their professional opinion (I didn't express concerns) means I shouldn't worry and just get on with life.

I am still in braces.

Yes me to. My bite isn't as good as yours, I have the spaces on the side, but I also know teeth can change a little with retainers.

I honestly think you should just get them of - a medical professional put doubt into your mind and now you feel like you are being short changed. As you've said plenty of times before, plenty of different ways to do things. I think because you know so much about ortho work, you have dug yourself into a hole where you want everything to be perfect because you have this knowledge.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your teeth how they are, get bedoned and get the retainers.

[jfriend33]

I don't see an issue, and as someone who's has treatment for 2 years, surgey, monthly visits, spent $15k AUD and doesn't have a masters in dentistry degree, I really don't have an answer to you, other than do what they say.

You still have the retainer to wear and that could move things around a bit?

My teeth aren't perfect but my ortho, hygientst, dentist and surgeon say they are fine, so I think their professional opinion (I didn't express concerns) means I shouldn't worry and just get on with life.

I am still in braces.

Yes me to. My bite isn't as good as yours, I have the spaces on the side, but I also know teeth can change a little with retainers.

I honestly think you should just get them of - a medical professional put doubt into your mind and now you feel like you are being short changed. As you've said plenty of times before, plenty of different ways to do things. I think because you know so much about ortho work, you have dug yourself into a hole where you want everything to be perfect because you have this knowledge.

I don't think there is anything wrong with your teeth how they are, get bedoned and get the retainers.

Ok... i have a gap so big that my tongue will fit between my premolars on my left side, and my lower teeth are unlevel. Thank you for your input, I do agree I may be over thinking things, but I am going to proceed with the original plan. I also have large gaps in my last molars in the back to the point its causing food to get stuck there so that needs to be fixed as well. Theres no guarantee anything will settle. That is what my last quack of an ortho said. Oh your bite will settle. Hmm no it didnt because my tongue posture was not addressed. Anyway appreciate your thoughts, and yes it is good to get opinions from all sides. I mean if it was your 2nd time in braces and your first time failed 20 years ago, I think you would be a little detail oriented as well.

[Rebeccasmells]

You midline is great. Your bite is great. You are ready for braces to come of, as said by the professional ortho, but a STUDENT said there is something not quite right, and gave you the decision to change it.

Now that decision is taken away from you, you are freaking out. The Dentist suggested you will get treatment because you are such a good patient, that they wouldn't give their relatives this special treatment.... this is not professional and leads to situations like this. It suggests the dentist doesn't fully treat patients because they are desperate to get braces of. The dentist should be in full control, had they not introduced this doubt into your mind, you would be fine.

Now, let's address your issue with the space. I to have that space, I to have had braces twice, I to had an open bite, I to have had to live with bad teeth for 20 years. I to have minor niggles with my teeth and not knowing if I'm being treated the best way.

You need to ask your Ortho about this space issue. I have a feeling it's to do with open bite and isn't an issue. Only your ortho can give you help, and they will also be giving your follow up treatment for the next two years.

No one has perfect teeth and I have reached my aims - straight teeth. I just hope they don't relapse, but they can do.

Oh and you think your situation is bad? I've had to pay for surgey and braces as a private patient despite health care in my home country. I had to undergo surgey by myself (I moved overseas). I have spent two months without an income (self employed and wasn't able to work, I won't mention my profession). I won't have the same level of care when I move back overseas. I won't have the option for surgery again. I've been in braces two years. I've paid for everything myself. We all have our own feelings around life, I can't experience your feelings and you can't experience mine.

[lmk]

Hi ! Picture of your teeth head on looks amazing ! BUT the one photo of the side shows that your second molars don't touch. Am I seeing that right? Looks like it's not even close and if it was me, I wouldn't want that. What was said by the Dr about that?

[jfriend33]

Hi ! Picture of your teeth head on looks amazing ! BUT the one photo of the side shows that your second molars don't touch. Am I seeing that right? Looks like it's not even close and if it was me, I wouldn't want that. What was said by the Dr about that?

Exactly my concern. Possibly due to all the molar intrusion. We'll see what they say after I emailed higher ups.