question about extraction

[sauerkraut]

Hope you get on well at your next appointment and manage to get answers to all your questions. It could be a good sign that your ortho wanted time to work things out with the models and so on: at least it shows he's putting some thought into it!

I don't know what the general position is on the type of brackets you get offered. That'll be another question for you to ask at your appointment. I think I've heard that some orthos are "tied" to particular suppliers but mine doesn't seem to be. I haven't got as far as choosing brackets for myself yet, but for my daughter he showed us samples of the various types he uses and gave us a leaflet with pictures and descriptions to take away and think about. Kids in my daughter's class who've been to different orthos, however, have not been offered any choice at all.

We opted for self-ligating, too, by the way. That meant paying a hefty amount to top up what the Krankenkasse pays, which only covers the very basic type, but so far we've been very pleased with that decision.

[sauerkraut]

(Sorry, post appeared twice for some reason )

[Brahma]

Hey sauerkraut,

thanks for your answer and thank you for telling your story.

Now that I think about that all I get a little bit sick. I am glad he needed time to make thoughts.
You can call me a fool, but I am a fraidy cat when it comes to this stuff. I have been scared of the dentist since I was a child and now got through it. Now it got quite easy.
So now, during the last month, my wisdom teeth were taken out from deep down in the jaw, because they hurt and were crowding the other teeth even more in a short time. It wasn´t that bad at all.
So now I hope the braces stuff won´t be that bad as I always imagined.
I read several stories about people having an expander and I got sick again. One day I decided to get through it and survive, but that night it really gave me a nightmare. In the morning I felt like
And I´m feeling silly because I´m already freaking out before anyone ever told me something like this really would be needed.
So I think it would be best to relax a little until next week. *blackout*
It´s quite challenging, but that´s okay.

Good night,
Brahma

[Brahma]

Oh und sauerkraut,

could you tell me what the "hefty amount" of the difference between self-ligating and normal brackets is in Germany? That would be nice.

Thanks.

Brahma

[sauerkraut]

Hi Brahma

I know just how you feel and don't think the fears are silly at all!

I feel a bit like I stood at the side of a river for a long time before daring to take the plunge. Now I've finally jumped in I'm being swept along by the current and all the nasty procedures I have to go through are the rocks I occasionally bump into along the way. But now I've committed myself I just have to go with the flow!

And after that little poetical interlude: the "hefty sum" was a bit over Euro 1000. Gulp.

[Brahma]

Hi sauerkraut,

thank you for your answer and this metaphor. That´s great. You really made me smile.

That really is a huge amount of money. You think it is worth that? I mean, does ist really make such a big difference as it should to justify this price?

---------

Today was my talking-appointment with the ortho. It seems as if he was choosing the best way. That makes me feel quite good with him.

Could it have been different, I missed to ask my questions because I was just to slow with understanding everything, just overchallenged. LOL I´ll have to do this if it comes to any next appointement I think.
He still suggested to extract two upper premolars. (Expanders do not seem to exist in these fields.) It would be possible to make the jaw bigger just with braces and perhaps a thing I do not know the english word for. Palatal arch, maybe. Some wire between two upper molars.
At last he got to know that all of my wisdom teeth are already gone and he seemed quite shocked. So was I. The upper ones will be missing now! There will be too much space in the back and he said my jaws might start to crack someday later, because it´s too hard for them. It would be the same as now, this danger can´t be banned. That does not sound so good, I think.
I asked if it was possible to move the other teeth backwards into the free space so that all of them might stay. No... would not be as good. He explained why using this modell but I couldn´t really see what he was talking about, because I just don´t know some of these moving-things. I think it was because of the bite.
And I felt quite eased because it was only about two ones.

I´ll think it over now, but don´t know how helpful it would be to ask another one, because all of these people seem to be really fast with extractions.
The other one talked about four ones at once and I remember one another when I was a child, wanting to pull eight ones.
I think he would have to explain once again why they can´t be moved backwards, before anything gets extracted. *bestupid*

Now I go on being annoyed about myself for getting all wisdom teeth removed. Obviously I talked to the wrong people. I have been looking for a way to keep them for two and a half years, because I was really worried about that. I talked to three dentists and two surgeons during that time and not even one of them told me that there might be any way to keep them. I do not really wonder about this, but it seems as if you have to catch up on studying medicine before believing anyone these days.

Thanks for listening to my thinking.

greetz,
Brahma

[sauerkraut]

Hi Brahma

Yes, it's an awful lot of money, isn't it? I hope it's worth it but can't say for sure. Probably my daughter's friends who've had the basic braces will get the same results in the end, so in that sense we haven't gained much. But they all complain about pain and many have experienced brackets breaking or coming off, plus their teeth are moving more slowly. So far my daughter has had no complaints at all, and no pain. If she feels some pulling when a new wire has just been fitted, then all she has to do is eat some ice-cream and the problem's solved. Actually so far she's only had to do that once. She's very happy anyway, and it's worth it for that alone!

It's good to hear you were comfortable with your ortho, but I know what you mean about there being so much to take in. If you're anything like me, the questions you want to ask don't occur to you until 5 minutes after you've walked out the door! I'd still say there's absolutely no harm in getting a second opinion, though, even if it's only to establish without doubt that there's no avoiding more extractions. You might always have a question mark hanging over you about that, otherwise.

I'm no expert in this field (far from it!) but it sounds to me when you say it might "be possible to make the jaw bigger just with braces" that your ortho was thinking about expanding the jaw without surgery. Was it an Oberkieferdehnplatte (Schmetterling) that he said he might use? I think that is a kind of expander. My younger daughter had something like that when she was still quite small, to make her jaw grow wider. My ortho told me that you can sometimes get away with using them on females up to around age 19, but that after that the jaw is too firmly welded together - which is why I need surgery. But maybe your ortho (who knows your mouth better!)thinks that might work for you.

I wish you well in your further deliberations, anyway, and hope it won't take you 10 years to decide, like it did me!

[Brahma]

Hi sauerkraut,

nice to hear from you. If your daughter is feeling good, I think it is worth it. But you make me feel scared about the pain a little.
But I think I would survive it, it´s only for about a year and a few month. I was surprised it works that fast.

You are right about the question mark and I will ask another one for being sure. Hope they don´t all agree because it´s just easy. He showed me how to move teeth backwards with an pendulum, but for some reason it won´t work so well. I didn´t understand why, it was so complicated. But they would have to be moved quite a long way and I was a bit worried it could damage the teeth and after all I don´t have any of them.
I got this questions ten minutes after leaving, you are right.
No, no surgery. He might use a "Transpalatinalbogen" or "Gaumenbogen" or whatever it is called. He keeps his words and stuff quite secret.
("Why do you know about molar bands? ")
It´s just a single wire between two molars.
I´ve heard it don´t work for adults, but I read about many people who did it that way. I think it´s for making the arch "in form" or something.

You can keep all teeth after surgery, can´t you? I admire you going through this as you do.


See you,
Brahma

[allisun]

Wow. I hope at your next appointment you'll get to ask your questions and make the doctor slow down until you understand his explanations. You shouldn't feel bad for not understanding everything right away, or feel like you have to study medicine to trust someone. "Keeping his words a secret" doesn't sound good. Just remember, you're paying your doctor because he's providing a service (or you will be paying him in the future if you choose him), and you deserve to get answers you understand. Plus, this is your teeth we're talking about, not your car or something that doesn't matter as much! Good luck!

[sauerkraut]

Sorry, Brahma, I didn't mean to alarm you, talking about the pain! It's only for a couple of days after each adjustment, not constant. And the friends who have had problems with their brackets are all with different orthodontists from the one treating my family, so it might well have more to do with the skill of the ortho than the particular system he uses.

I think I know what you mean now with the wire thing. I think it's a transpalatal arch (or possibly bar). Like you, I don't know the English words for a lot of these things. I'm trying to learn from this board!

I'm a lot older than you , so I need more drastic methods to widen my jaw. And yes, surgery does mean I keep such teeth as I have left! I was treated by a trigger-happy dentist when I was a teenager (he was not shy of pulling teeth!) and my wisdom teeth have had to come out since then, too, as they were impacted. So extraction was never really an option for me. I'll tell you in 2 weeks (op. is due on 27th)whether I'm worthy of any admiration for all this! Like I mentioned before, I'm just letting myself be carried along by the momentum of it all for the moment!

On the subject of getting doctors to explain things, I don't know if it's a general doctor thing or specifically a German doctor thing, but I think they very often do have the attitude that they are the experts and we should just trust them to do their job and let them get on with it. The trouble is, in my experience the most technically competent often tend to be the ones with the least developed people skills!

I wish you well with it all, anyway.

[Brahma]

Hey Ho...

Back again.
Now that the year comes to it´s end, my thoughts finally calm down and decisions are made. I am so excited, I just can´t tell. All my fears are gone!
After meeting almost all orthos in the country, reading for days and nights and -not least- reading on the board and talking to you, I decided to go ahead. I´ll get two upper premolars extracted and then get Invisalign.
This way includes the "danger" that the result might not be the absolut perfect Hollywood-Smile, but I have never wanted that. I was told this way I could get what I never expected to be there for me in this life; healthy and normal looking teeth.
Actually I was told about half a year ago, but these month of carrying out research were kinda fun and quite insightful about me and my life.
Now I am absolutely sure that I chose my way and I think knowing that without any doubts can push things half way already. Certainly it will be a great time, fulfilling my great wish, despite of all uncomfortable things that might appear.
The day after tomorrow I´ll call the office to tell them I´m okay (and ask at least a hundred more questions ) and we can go.

Thank you so much for your help. I´ll give something "back" by sharing my experiences, maybe in a "story-thread".
Just starting here: If you are in doubt about your decisions at the moment, just take your time. It´ll all get clear, that´s one of the most important things, I believe.

Have a nice day and happy new year,

Brahma

[sauerkraut]

Glad you've found a solution you're happy with, Brahma. Hope all goes smoothly - keep us informed!

Happy New Year.

[kittymeow84]

Hi Brahma!
I just saw your story and noticed your tooth is similar to mine. Except that my sticky-out one is the upper left lateral, not the canine. Check out the link in my signature and you'll see photos of my teeth.

In my case, I went to three orthodontists and only one said she wanted to do extractions which I was not happy about at all. The other two said they would be able to use self-ligating brackets (like the Damon 3 system) to move all my teeth out and not have to remove a single one. In the end I'm going with the ortho that is giving me the clearest and smallest brackets which is all I care about. They are the In-Ovation C's and I'm glad they're going to be virtually un-noticable.

It seems to me that extractions are possibly less common in Australia? Or it may be just my case. But all I'm suggesting is that if you're still uncomfortable with the thought of having teeth removed, see if you can still get another opinion.
I don't know an awful lot about orthodontics, but from my searches and research on the net, it seems that extractions are a very controversial topic and some orthos feel quite strongly about it.

Either way - good luck with everything and keep us all posted!