Ortho made inappropriate statement, in my opinion.

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#1 Post by **niteowl** » Tue May 12, 2009 6:18 pm

I have been reading this board for the past couple of weeks and have learned a great deal on a subject which I knew nothing about. I thank all of you for your input and helpful information.
Since you have all been through this process, I wanted to ask your honest opinion about a statement made by my ortho.
To summarize, I am 42 and am just now considering braces. I am extremely particular about my teeth. I think a person's teeth and smile are our most important feature. I have straight, white uppers but have developed some black triangles that really bother me. I have some crowding on my lowers (2 teeth are affected by this).
I was refered to an ortho by my new dentist. I had my first visit. He said he could help me and really enhance my teeth and smile. So, I went ahead and had xrays, molds, etc. taken that day.
I went back for a second visit where he went over all that with me, along with his plan for me. Metal lowers and ceramic uppers for 10-12 months.

Since that time, I have been reading this board and learing. Because I want to make a completely informed decision before jumping into this, I called to set up an additional appointment with him to go over some new questions I had (very reasonable questions, in my opinion).
He answered my questions and at the end of the visit he told me that during the treatment he "did not want me to nit pick him to death".

To be honst, it really took me by surprise. I barely know this man. It seemed an extreme and inappropriate response to me. I am simply trying to make an educated decision. Now I feel that if I have questions or concerns during my treatment that I cannot openly speak to him about it.
I am having reservations about using him.

But, I realize it could be me being overly sensitive about his statement. THis is why I am asking for your opinions. If your ortho had made that comment to you at the very beginning of your meetings, would you have gone ahead and used him?

Thanks in advance.

#2 Post by **newsboysgrl777** » Tue May 12, 2009 6:40 pm

Take my opinion as just ONE opinion, because I'm not sure how others would feel or what they would've done, but I would NOT have gone with this person and if you were asking me my advice for you, I would say "look elsewhere."

During treatment, you're going to have A LOT of questions and some anxiety and maybe even fears, etc. about things that just crop up. We live with our teeth 24/7 and we have to deal with pain, weird spaces/gaps, or anything else that comes along...and the ortho only sees us for about 2 minutes every 6 weeks. (S)he doesn't have to live with it and maybe they get sick to death of the same question over and over again by each patient, but you know what? Each patient is a PERSON..unique and independent from all the rest...so being IMPATIENT, in my opinion, is an indication that maybe it's time to either scale down, or find something else to do.

When I had a LOT of questions for my ortho, I was afraid to go in and talk to her. Mostly because of a lot of stuff I'd read on these boards about some people's orthos getting aggravated with questions, or not really listening to their fears/questions, or addressing them, or whatever. But she sat down and THOROUGHLY explained things to me and then said "I like it when a patient asks me a question, rather than having anxiety." And this was after I'd already had my top brackets on for 9 months!! Okay?? THAT is the sign of a good DOCTOR (no matter WHAT kind of speciality he/she is in!!) Patients need reassurance and if a doctor can't give that, I say (s)he's not doing their job.

This...is my two cents. Good luck hun...and personally, I would've been HIGHLY offended by the statement. On top of what I've mentioned above about 'good bed-side manner,' I am huge on customer service. I never went back to an ortho after a consult where I felt I wasn't treated the way I should've been. Nothing as blatant as what this ortho said to you, but it was enough to steer me away!

#3 Post by **cathykay** » Tue May 12, 2009 6:41 pm

I think the problem with some orthodontists is that they don't know how to deal with adults who have braces. Orthodontist spend the majority of their time fixing little kids' teeth and while their parents may occasionally have a question or two, I don't believe they ask the same questions as adults. I think that as adults, we want to know more of what is going on. We don't just want to sit back, trust the orthodontist, and relax. We want to know what is being done to our mouths! There is definitely nothing wrong with that. I just believe that some orthodontist do not know how to handle the differences between children and adult patients.

If the orthodontist you planned on going through treatment with is the first orthodontist you consulted with, I suggest having another consultation with someone else. If he is so snippy before you even begun your treatment, I would fear his reaction down the road if you have a question or two. You should have an orthodontist who will not mind answering your questions because throughout your treatment, questions may arise and you should feel comfortable asking them. You have every right to know what is going on in your mouth!

#4 Post by **newsboysgrl777** » Tue May 12, 2009 6:43 pm

quick correction: I've had my brackets on for 9 months now, it would've been 8 months back when I asked all my questions.

#5 Post by **Andromeda** » Tue May 12, 2009 6:52 pm

I had my ortho say something that bothered me about 2 weeks ago. I posted it in another thread and this is what I said...

"Last time I talked to my ortho tho, I asked a question about why I was wearing the elastics in a particular way and he sorta yelled at me. He said something like "Look, you've just got to get over it and let me do my job!" in a tone and using hand gestures that showed he was very frustrated with me and my questions. I didn't know what to say. Its like he can only take one or two questions and after that he just gets sick of it. I try to ask the assistants whenever possible bc they are usually nicer but sometimes they just don't know the answers..."

I think it's basically the same thing that happened to you - the ortho saying something that seemed inappropriate/rude and basically saying he didn't welcome our questions. I am due to be debanded in 3 weeks though, so I won't have to worry about it too much longer. I think if he would have said something like this to me before I decided to go with him at the beginning, I definitely would have picked someone else. I think what yours said was rude and you will probably always feel worried about asking questions for fear of his reaction. In my opinion, we should be able to ask reasonable questions to be fully informed with what is happening and the ortho is getting paid enough of our money to at least be polite.

My teeth seem to be turning out fine but I do wish I had felt more comfortable with the ortho during treatment. I also feel like he misled me into thinking I'd be getting my braces off sooner than I am and didn't communicate this important fact to me until the last minute.

I would at least shop around a little more or maybe even ask one of the assistants there (when the ortho isn't within earshot) if he is willing to answer questions and such and see what they say. They may just be upfront with you and let you know the truth.

#6 Post by **blindboarder2008** » Tue May 12, 2009 9:29 pm

I totally agree with everyone in what they are saying about this issue. You really need to feel comfortable wih the orthodontist and feel confident that they will take care of you throughout your treatment. Braces are a big thing because it changes your teeth and your bite. So you need to make sure before you go through with treatment that you feel comfortable and confident with the person who is doing the work. Personally if my orthodontist said something like this to me I would be out of there so fast and be finding a new orthodontist.

#7 Post by **lovelyleo** » Tue May 12, 2009 9:33 pm

Niteowl,

If I were you I would take my money and run. He was beyond rude and highly unprofessional. Post like these make me grateful for my ortho. You as a patient have the right to ask as many questions as you please no matter how stupid or complicated they maybe. There will betime during treatment when you will wonder WTF is going on in my mouth and a little reassurance and answers is all it takes and if your ortho can't handle that then maybe they shouldn't be practicing. That is like a surgeon not wanting to answer the questions of a patient. Unacceptable
I wish you luck in your journey.

On a sidenote:

I have a feeling/conspiracy theory that some orthos tell adult patients shorter treatment times on purpose because orthos know NO adult wants to spend any longer in braces then what they have to. Then when the patient agrees to treatment with the ortho who said 12 to 18 months and they get to month 16 and things are going nowhere near what the ortho "expected" (gaps not closed bite not being worked on etc) the patient ends up being upset but is so near the end the of treatment they don't switch orthos but stay with the longer treatment time and the ortho gets more adult patients. I could be completely wrong but I see so many people on here with short treatment times but end up being in braces longer.

#8 Post by **mehl** » Wed May 13, 2009 11:26 am

The ortho did address your questions though, didn't he? You got the additional appointment to answer them, so he's showed he's willing to answer your questions. What was his tone- mild/amused or irritated? Were you aking (technical?) questions because you don't have faith in him or trust his professional judgement, or out of curiosity? If it's the former you should find another one, if it's the latter there are ways and ways of asking questions...

You have to find an ortho whose judgement you can trust, because we just can't match their expertise.

#9 Post by **Jenny5** » Wed May 13, 2009 11:52 am

You will be seeing this orthodontist roughly every month over the course of your treatment. I just got my braces off this week and as much as I was in the office, I definitely needed to feel comfortable and friendly with my doctor and the staff. Otherwise, it would have been torture going there so often. Plus, while you need to trust your doctor's judgment and expertise, it's also important to feel comfortable asking questions and communicating when you have curiosities or concerns. If I were you, I'd definitely go on a few consultations with other orthodontists and then see how you feel after talking to others.

#10 Post by **beth1966** » Wed May 13, 2009 1:19 pm

My opinion? LOOK ELSEWHERE!

Orthos in general are not use to questions from their patients - because as someone else said they often deal with kids. I went on a consult last night and have learned so much from this board and previous consults. I did not voice even ONE QUARTER of all the things I have learned on my own through reading and research.

When I met with the office manager after about pricing she commented on how incredibly informed I am and how much she admired and enjoyed this. I said "well that is just the kind of person I am, but don't most adults know about this stuff when they come here?" She said "NO - they just leave it up to the doctor because he's been recommended to them."

I can understand that - but I also like to learn about any kind of process such as this, so for me - I can't imagine not asking questions and I can't ask informed questions unless I know what I am talking about.

I was getting ready to go for my 2nd consult with one ortho I thought I really liked - she had told me to call ANY time with additional questions and to come back as well. 2 hours before they 2nd consult they callled me and canceled - said they didn't think they would be able to meet my expectations. Bottom line - they could not be bothered.

I suggest being informed and shopping around. I also almost got talked into paying about $2500 MORE then any other ortho charges in my area. Some orthos will charge way above what is customary, not sure why, guess some people will pay whatever they are told to pay.

Good luck!

#11 Post by **classII** » Wed May 13, 2009 2:48 pm

I think you have to weigh it out, with knowing that orthos are a very very peculiar breed

they don't seem to know if they are artists or doctors. Very common amongst them. I got a hefty dose of it on my last appointment. All the while being well aware of what is going on, what he is doing, what needs to be done, but never asking anything specific, since all is well understood by me, and if someone needs addressing, asking in the simplest layman terms possible which seems to coddle their egos, that they are kings. On the last appointment I made the mistake of injecting the correct term for the angle of the side of all the teeth while he was explaining that in equally simple terms. "Yes that is the so and so curve. I know all about it". He went nuts. Threw a big hissy fit, called his partner over, saying, oh look he knows all about, it,knows what it is even alled, he must be a dentist, blah blah blah. Got very upset

Howeve knowing how these characters operate, I laughed it off and said yeah and if you don't do a good job I'll fix it all myself

he finally settled down and back to normal thereafter.

Just be aware most are quite bizarre in this way and even what this ortho said to you should be taken so seriously.

#12 Post by **beth1966** » Wed May 13, 2009 3:28 pm

ClassII -- thanks for your post, that is good to know! I wish I had known that when I began meeting with a few, because this explains it!
HAHA!

They should put your post as a disclaimer on this site for when adults first begin their ortho journey!

#13 Post by **classII** » Wed May 13, 2009 3:43 pm

Absolutely.

This is why, even though it appears to be a 'sales pitch' let them show you there before and afters, which they are so very proud of. Have then show you same or similar case.

The simple fact is even they don't know what is going to happen until the wires start working. No way they can. Everyone's teeth are different, move at different speeds etc. etc.

They wing it and if they are good at it, steer the teeth into place. That's why you get some who say , they are impressed at how fast yours move, or, whatever.

It's impossible for them to map out and guarantee anything. It is an art, and that is why if the ortho is good, and has a lousy personality, that is not important.

They don't know how until they try and do.

The most interesting thing to me has been that, what you think is how the arches are formed, is in fact not the case. One thinks that strap on the wire in a certain arch shape and let it be and the teeth are pulled into a nice round arch. Doesn't happen like that or work like that. It's is modular. They move a set of teeth, at a time, postion them, then another set, and thereafter, they all gel into a perfect arch. It is art and as long as they are known to be good, I wouldn't worry about querying them through out, since it's not slapping on a wire and presto, the perfect arch is formed.

That's the single thing I have learnt to date as I watch and see it happening as I go through my treatment.

Just be patient, wait watch and monitor and let them do their job.

#14 Post by **niteowl** » Wed May 13, 2009 3:59 pm

Thanks to all of you who took the time to respond with your opinions and experiences. Regarding Mehl's comment, yes he did meet with me an additional time and answered my questions. After pouring over this forum and learning all I can, I went in with with a list of 5 additional questions.
He is also trained in perio and since I have a black triangle issue, I wanted to clarify some questions regarding my gums.

When he made that comment, based on my interpretation, it came from a place of irritation. He followed it by saying that "I will simply have to trust that he knows what he is doing."
While I am sure he is competent at his job, I do not know him and have never spoken to one of his clients. So, all I have to go on is that my dentist referred me to him.
To me personally, it just seems a bit arrogant for someone to ask that you have blind faith in them when they are making changes to your teeth and smile.
I was not questioning his skill. I just have questions that I want answered upfront. Seems a responsible approach to me and I would think an ortho would appreciate a person who is concerned about their teeth and what is being done to them.

While I am not making any decisions just yet, I am going to get one or two more consults so I will have a better guage regarding his response to my questions.

Thank you again. This board is a wealth of information.
However, I am getting the feeling that the Orthos would prefer that we go to them as ignorant consumers.

#15 Post by **classII** » Wed May 13, 2009 4:30 pm

However, I am getting the feeling that the Orthos would prefer that we go to them as ignorant consumers.

No.

Set the tone from day one. Ask anything and every thing at the initial consultation. Don't come back with additional questions as if you had a second consult and therefore are testing the first ortho with what the second ortho said.

It's a dating game.

If you must be subtle about it.

they are sensitive artists after all.

In fact if you're ortho IS NOT sensitive to that subteltly, all he is after is your money.

Again, weigh it all outl. Expert + sensitive vs. Claimed expert, happy is a pig in sh!t yes yes yes just sign up.

Think of it like your hairdresser. I want this hairdo. "trust me darling, I'll make you look like a million dollars"

Metal Mouth Message Board

Ortho made inappropriate statement, in my opinion.

Ortho made inappropriate statement, in my opinion.

Thank you.