Adult Non-Surgical Palatal Expansion

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Sidney
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:32 pm

#16 Post by Sidney »

DrJasonKTam wrote:The mid palatal suture is the line you feel running down the middle of your palate. This denotes the location of an opening between two bones and becomes fused during puberty. The goal of expansion is to move these two bones apart. After fusion, the upper jaws are not able to be separated from each other without surgery. As such, only dental tipping is possible.

Dental tipping in a buccal direction, as mentioned, is not true jaw expansion, but can be considered dental expansion. Keep in mind that the teeth can only be tipped out so far before the supporting structures, such as the gums and bone, are compromised. Long term stability is also of great concern.

This is as sure as night and day :).
But there are so many case reports and reports from patients and studies. All you need to do is search this forum.

Here's an example of a study:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3310 ... t=Abstract

And another:

http://www.angle.org/doi/pdf/10.1043/00 ... 2.0.CO%3B2

This study says:

Rapid maxillary expansion in adults flared the
molars buccally only 3 degrees per side. The mandibular plane and lower facial height were unchanged. The
adults achieved 18% of their transmolar expansion at the height of the palate and the remainder with buccal
displacement of the alveolus. /quote

18% is not that great, but the point is, bone expansion was achieved.

My suspicion, based on what I've read, is that the amount of tipping and the type of expansion (dental or skeletal) depends on what was used to achieve the expansion.

There is one thread where a person reported on using a kind of expander that fits against the roof of the mouth and, IIRC, they didn't need to turn any key. The fact that it fit against the roof ensured that there'd be no tipping.

The person said that they were told by the dr that expansion is achieved by growing new bone. The bone stretches out, holes appear, and new bone grows (I'm not 100% on the explanation, I've read so many stuff recently it's all jumbled up).

There are really so many reports from patients, and case reports from doctors and studies (and it's not folks who confuse it with tipping of teeth). You can just search this forum and find reports of faces getting wider and cheekbones more pronounced.

I think the reason some people write off adult non surgical expansion is that they see one that isn't done well and results in just tipping and they assume it's all just tipping.

BracketRacket
Posts: 400
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:51 pm
Location: East Coast, USA
Contact:

#17 Post by BracketRacket »

The abstract for your first study:
A cemented palatal expansion appliance with a bite plane is used successfully in adults up to 43 years of age, augmented with lateral maxillary osteotomy in the older ages range.

Sidney
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:32 pm

#18 Post by Sidney »

BracketRacket wrote:The abstract for your first study:
A cemented palatal expansion appliance with a bite plane is used successfully in adults up to 43 years of age, augmented with lateral maxillary osteotomy in the older ages range.
I understood that as older than 43.

Sidney
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:32 pm

#19 Post by Sidney »

Here is another case of adult nonsurgical expansion:

http://www.leefongdds.com/team/dfong_case_report.pdf

Flaka
Posts: 280
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 10:04 pm
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#20 Post by Flaka »

DrJasonKTam wrote:The mid palatal suture is the line you feel running down the middle of your palate. This denotes the location of an opening between two bones and becomes fused during puberty. The goal of expansion is to move these two bones apart. After fusion, the upper jaws are not able to be separated from each other without surgery. As such, only dental tipping is possible.

Dental tipping in a buccal direction, as mentioned, is not true jaw expansion, but can be considered dental expansion. Keep in mind that the teeth can only be tipped out so far before the supporting structures, such as the gums and bone, are compromised. Long term stability is also of great concern.

This is as sure as night and day :).
I believe this is what happened to me. I have been in crossbite elastics for about 24 months. The "expansion" has made my molars to tipped out so far that it created a canted bite. I am now wearing a classII elastic plus the crossbite elastic on my right side, plus a box elastic on the front.

How can this occlusal cant due to tipping be corrected?
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21braces
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:32 am

#21 Post by 21braces »

When you guys mention having expanders in for approx 6 months, do you have the braces on as well? Because I need to have the expander, but I really don't want to wait for 6 months before I get the braces on.

I'm hoping that IF I get the braces on while I have the palate expander in, the braces will close the gap as we go along. So I don't look too much like a hill billy :)

BracketRacket
Posts: 400
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:51 pm
Location: East Coast, USA
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#22 Post by BracketRacket »

21braces wrote:
I'm hoping that IF I get the braces on while I have the palate expander in, the braces will close the gap as we go along. So I don't look too much like a hill billy :)
Don't knock it -- I'm rocking the full-on hillbilly grin! :lol: Are you having surgery? If not, I wouldn't worry too much about "the gap" anyway -- there's little chance you'll have any major gap, especially in the front.

Chicagogal
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 7:22 am
Location: USA

#23 Post by Chicagogal »

21braces wrote:When you guys mention having expanders in for approx 6 months, do you have the braces on as well? Because I need to have the expander, but I really don't want to wait for 6 months before I get the braces on.

I'm hoping that IF I get the braces on while I have the palate expander in, the braces will close the gap as we go along. So I don't look too much like a hill billy :)
I have my palate expander in still with my full mouth of braces. I got the expander and bottom braces and 5 months later I got the top braces. So you might have to wait a bit for a little expansion to occur, but the molar bands of expanders can be designed for use with braces as well.
Update: 4-2013 Back in Brackets :(
lower braces: 3/2/10
hyrax palate expander: 3/29/10
upper braces: est. 6/2010 (8/6/10 actual)
bone plate surgery: 1/2011 actual
bone plate removal: 7/2011 actual
Debracing: 10-25-11 ACTUAL!!! advanced hawley retainer
Rebracing: 4-3-13...front teeth rotated #2s lifted.

sjs8906
Posts: 149
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:01 pm
Location: Wilmington, NC, USA

#24 Post by sjs8906 »

21braces wrote:When you guys mention having expanders in for approx 6 months, do you have the braces on as well? Because I need to have the expander, but I really don't want to wait for 6 months before I get the braces on.

I'm hoping that IF I get the braces on while I have the palate expander in, the braces will close the gap as we go along. So I don't look too much like a hill billy :)
I'm wearing my expander first without braces. I'm nearing the end of my "expansion" and I have no gap, so if you're not having surgery, I wouldn't worry about a gap. If you are having surgery, there will be a gap but I'm not sure what all goes on with the expander/braces in that case.

owlsonbikes
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:49 am

#25 Post by owlsonbikes »

i'm almost 26 & i've been to 4 orthos recently discussing expansion. 2 told me they could do it w/o the surgery, and 2 said i'd need the surgery. 1 even said moving adult teeth is touchy even without an expander, so even if i opted just for braces & didn't touch my bite, he'd have to be careful not to disrupt the gums.

my dentist had the surgery done himself... but he said if the ortho he recommended would expand without the surgery i should trust him because he's done complicated cases & the surgery is not fun.

my question is, why is this such a heated debate? if it's true that no true expansion can be done without surgery, why are there still orthos who try this approach? one of my friends (who had the surgery, she tried expanding when she was 16 & it didn't work) suggested it's because some orthos aren't as well versed with treating adults. i have seen some study's that claim the suture can be cracked w/o surgery, but not many.

i'm not having an current health problems due to my cross bite. so i'm contemplating possibly not correcting my cross bite, and just straightening my teeth. but will i have a lot of future problems from not correcting my bite?

any thoughts?

VA5
Posts: 671
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:58 pm

#26 Post by VA5 »

drrick wrote:If the teeth are tipped toward the palate then you can get 'uprighting' This isnt true expansion but many people (drs and pts alike) get confused in the terminolgy and call it expansion when in fact it is uprighting.

You cant move teeth outsie the limits of the bone but if there is bone you can move the teeth into that bone (which is what you do when you uproght the teeth)
This is really late...

But, I read this post and wanted to know, how do you "upright" teeth? I think my molars are tipped inward, and I'd love to have them uprighted if that will in some way "expand" my palate or at least widen my smile just a tad.

Thanks!
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VA5
Posts: 671
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:58 pm

#27 Post by VA5 »

owlsonbikes wrote:i'm almost 26 & i've been to 4 orthos recently discussing expansion. 2 told me they could do it w/o the surgery, and 2 said i'd need the surgery. 1 even said moving adult teeth is touchy even without an expander, so even if i opted just for braces & didn't touch my bite, he'd have to be careful not to disrupt the gums.

my dentist had the surgery done himself... but he said if the ortho he recommended would expand without the surgery i should trust him because he's done complicated cases & the surgery is not fun.

my question is, why is this such a heated debate? if it's true that no true expansion can be done without surgery, why are there still orthos who try this approach? one of my friends (who had the surgery, she tried expanding when she was 16 & it didn't work) suggested it's because some orthos aren't as well versed with treating adults. i have seen some study's that claim the suture can be cracked w/o surgery, but not many.

i'm not having an current health problems due to my cross bite. so i'm contemplating possibly not correcting my cross bite, and just straightening my teeth. but will i have a lot of future problems from not correcting my bite?

any thoughts?
i read somewhere here.. that the bite is in some ways more important than straight teeth. and i believe it. you have to think about the health of your roots and how it might relate to your gums and also you should realize that the way the teeth are lined up can cause undue stress to the roots/gum if the bite isn't good.
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BraceFace2o1o
Posts: 980
Joined: Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:00 pm

#28 Post by BraceFace2o1o »

At the 2nd part of my consult the Orthodontist mentioned an 'expander'... which wasn't mentioned at the first part of the consult (maybe the expander became part of my treatment plan after he saw my molds).

I am 24 years old and I've read many times that expanders don't work on adults (they just tip the teeth). My upper 1st premolars are slightly tipped towards my palate and I am sure these are the teeth he wants to expand/tip with an expander... from what I can remember him saying anyway.

The thing is, my lower molars are rather tipped (towards my tongue, sorry I don't know all the correct terms) and he was explaining this to me and that he wants to correct this issue... but he didn't mention an expander for the bottom, just elastics.

I wouldn't say I need actual expansion of my palate as I feel mine is ok and I have a (sort of lol) U shape going on and I don't feel it's too small from looking at this picture
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Braces: Metal fixed upper and lower
Estimated treatment time: 18-24 months
Braces Removed: August 2013 (after 33 months in braces)
Retainers: Upper & lower essix and lower bonded
My Story / Before & After photos

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sjs8906
Posts: 149
Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:01 pm
Location: Wilmington, NC, USA

#29 Post by sjs8906 »

Chrystal wrote:My upper 1st premolars are slightly tipped towards my palate and I am sure these are the teeth he wants to expand/tip with an expander... from what I can remember him saying anyway.
This is the same in my case. My upper molars tipped inward which caused my bite to be "off" from my molars not fitting together properly. I never even realized this until my consult! I'm finished turning my expander now and my bite comes together much better.

owlsonbikes
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:49 am

#30 Post by owlsonbikes »

VA5 wrote:i read somewhere here.. that the bite is in some ways more important than straight teeth. and i believe it. you have to think about the health of your roots and how it might relate to your gums and also you should realize that the way the teeth are lined up can cause undue stress to the roots/gum if the bite isn't good.
yeah, i agree. i may not be able to afford to get my bite fixed though if insurance doesn't cover the surgery. which is why i'm still considering nonsurgical expansion still as well, but i'm really weary of it.

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